Thursday, July 12, 2018

Cloud259 and Lets Get Running Podcasts and Two Marathon Training Cycles.

  A couple weeks ago quite independent of each other two runners with podcasts contacted me about helping them get ready for fall marathons.  First Shaun Dixon of Lets Get Running,, who is getting ready for the the Frankfurt marathon and wanting to run under 2:20.  Then a couple days later Gregg Lemos-Stein of the Cloud259 podcast,, reached out looking to unsurprisingly try to break 3 hours at the Berlin marathon.

  This was both a bit funny, I haven't done a podcast in a couple of years and I'm not doing much in the competitive or promotional running world right now so to get contacted by two in a week was a bit weird, and also quite neat.  The chance to work with two runners who have some striking similarities in their situations.  Looking for a noticable but not crazy step up in their marathon performance, running fast european fall marathons, a sense of this being a last chance of sorts at this goal and a feeling that the direction of their previous marathon training plans was not effective.  Then some interesting differences.  One coming from a very competitive international level background with a high degree of confidence in his non-marathon running and racing the other much more from a 'normal' performance background with no more confidence in his other distances than his marathon work.

  Generally speaking I don't listen to or read interviews that I do anymore.  Early on it was very exciting to be in a podcast or a magazine so I would jump at the chance to see it but that wears off.  Now of course their are exceptions, a few years ago runners world did a video with me in it that included some time in my classroom. I showed the finished video in all my classes because the kids all wanted to see if they or their friends were in it.  The excite may have wained for me but it was amazing to see how excited middle school kids were to catch a glimpse of themselves or people they knew.   That said in the case of both of these podcasts I did listen to them because I was interested to hear how both athletes were reacting to their training schedules and the experience of the first few sessions.  Though that was my intial motivation I couldn't help but judge my own answers and statements as I was listening.

  First and foremost I hate my voice.  I always wanted to grow up to sound like James Earl Jones and I really couldn't have missed the mark by much more than I did.  Second I have no ability whatsoever to be brief.  I can't give a simple straight forward answer.  Now I obviously knew both of these things long before pressing play on these two podcasts but that doesn't mean they didn't drive me nuts when I was trying to listen to them.

  Interestingly though as I listened to them I actually found myself wishing I had added more information or expanded on the thoughts I was expressing.  I guess there is no likelyhood of me becomeing a master of brevity anytime soon.  So I'm going to add my notes on both podcast below trying to highlight what I meant or what I wished I had added or in some cases just what the hell I was trying to say...

Cloud 259 episode 66
15:10- Shumacher calls these Rythm runs.  Vigil calls them intermediate runs or if done progressively stepping stone runs.

* all through this discussion on Canova's training I should be clear I was talking specifically about how he prepares marathoners so it is not specific to or in many cases true of how he prepares athletes for other events

*18:50 -Gregg started working with me only 10 weeks out from his goal marathon so we are sort of jumping straight into special almost specific marathon training.  This would be very difficult to do with a lot of athletes but Gregg is a slow twitch runner and is not on the extreme end of his bodies potential so I think it will be ok.

20:00 to 23:00- some specific examples to slow at 5% each time the distance doubles 28:00 for 10k would be equal to about 2:09:45, 27:00 would equal 2:05:18.  A 1:01 half marathon would equal 2:08 flat.  A 1:02 half would equal about a 2:10 flat. 

21:48- Paul Evans 2:08:52 off of a 1:01:18 half marathon. 

24:40- I feel like it sounds like I'm calling Shumacher out here.  Let me be clear I do think his athletes have left a lot on the table in the marathon but I am only refering to the marathon.  Overall the performances they have produced are amazing and I would kill for 1/10th his understanding of how to develop general running fitness and how to produce results at 3k to half marathon goal races.

27:15- I'm not trying to disparage 2:12 but his guys are running that 28:00/1:01 range and that would put them sub 2:10 on fast courses.  Now compare that with a lot of similar guys in the U.S. or U.S. trained in the last 15 years- ie Rohatinsky, Carney, Bairu, Quigley, Smyth, Watson for a few examples off the top of my head.

32:15- I was specifically refering to early in a training cylce when I told Gregg that the recovery pace was the place to give in on if you have to.  The closer you get to your race the more you want to be hitting those recovery times and the interval times and at that point overall distance becomes the thing you can give in on OR you can hold the recovery pace but do it for longer distance a mile or two instead of a half mile to get your feet back under you and then hit your pace for your reps.

Lets Get Running Episode 46

14:35- The name I'm searching for is Brett Gotcher who ran 2:10:26 or there about in his debut at Houston a while back.  It hit me the moment I got off the line with Shaun. 

18:50- 1995 world leader was Sammy Lelei at 2:07:02, #3 was a 2:08:30 and there were 16 times under 2:10.  Last year the  world lead was 2:03:32. 84 times under 2:08:30 were recorded.  181 times under 2:10 were recorded. Compare that to the 5k- world lead in 1995 was,12:44 , and the #10 time was 13:02 . Last year the world lead was 12:55 and #10 time was 13:04.

21:30- I was amiss not to mention that Bill Squires group was doing some good specific work that was a step away from modern Canova training.  I imigine that if the money hadn't fallen out of the sport and Bill had been able to keep his group going he would likely have continued to evolve with the times and the american marathoning in the 1990's and early 2000's would have been a very different scene than it ended up being. 

31:45- I actually love Pete's book and he really knows his stuff as well.  I just think you'll do better with more specific work. 

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